SportsTalkSocial community: Overview
Many may not know me, because I'm not the most active person in the community, but I always end up creating content in our community.
I'm passionate about sports, and my first post in the community was on December 10, 2020.
Sport in general is a huge topic that millions of people like to talk about and write about.
This makes me believe that a well-structured sports community has the potential to be as big/important as LeoFinance.
For a while, I was sharing some ideas and opinions on points (post 1 post2 post3) that our community could improve. However, I quickly realized that @patrickulrich had other priorities than launching the DAO.
At the time I decided to simply stop giving ideas/opinions as it started to seem boring due to always hitting the same points.
Two years later, I decided to look again at the state of our community.
From what I've analyzed it seems to me that nothing has improved significantly but let's see concrete data:
General Numbers
Currently, we have 4005 followers, but of these only 123 active users and with a total of 584 interactions and attention that this month we had the World Cup.
Let's compare with other communities.
| Community | Followers | Iterations | Active users |
|---|---|---|---|
| Alien Art Hive | 4461 | 874 | 263 |
| 1UP | 1225 | 64 | 35 |
| Black and White | 7874 | 895 | 188 |
| LeoFinance | 15495 | 13312 | 1300 |
| Pinmapple | 9957 | 1743 | 417 |
| Full Deportes | 2706 | 760 | 103 |
| LikeTu | 3682 | 2877 | 661 |
| Ladies of Hive | 4995 | 2447 | 354 |
| StemSocial | 3467 | 430 | 77 |
| THGaming | 519 | 3855 | 230 |
| CineTV | 2018 | 323 | 113 |
| CTP | 865 | 480 | 123 |
| Rising Star Game | 2530 | 3191 | 239 |
As we can see, our community in terms of followers even has more followers than some of these communities mentioned above.
However, in terms of active users and iterations, we are one of the worst performing communities.
These are the points that separate communities successfully being recognized from communities that are just another one that don't really bring much.
Unfortunately, now our community is just one of many, even a community strictly in Spanish about sports that has existed for much less time has grown more and has more iterations than we do.
Despite all the efforts @cryptoandcoffee is constantly warning about this iteration issue.
I think that now as a community we must think and define what we want and how we want to position ourselves.
Do we want to be just another community, or do we want to be one of the big communities?
Financially
SPORTS Token
Regarding SPORTS, there is not much to say since its price will never be attractive, because everyone can farm our token even if the posts have nothing to do with sports or posts from the actifit community. This was something I also mentioned in my ideas posts, but nothing has changed.
However, there would be supposed to be buy backs & burns with the money generated by sportstalksocial.com advertising, according to what was said at the time of its implementation.
When analyzing @sports-gov and @sportstalksocial portfolios, we see that there are 0.01615126 SWAP.BTC stopped for more than a year and another fact is that there are no publication transfers for more than a year.
Has advertising been removed from the site?
To this we can also add that in the bc1qhpcvxv36hjwefp3xhvtda0xrdqgxfv7kaxn893 wallet (which was the last one you transferred to sports-gov) there is still 0.01231135 BTC available.
HIVE Power
None of the accounts have a lot of HP, but I'm sure the HP they contain should be used to reward community users who create content and interact.
This leads me to question why the @sports-gov account is delegating 5k to @actifit.rewards
Is it not enough for the Actifit community to be farming SPORTS that we still delegate Hive Power to them?
Governance
Theoretically, we are a decentralized community since there is a DAO where anyone can create a proposal to change or create something in the community.
However, of the 13 proposals created, 11 forms created by @patrickulrich and these proposals are the only way to see that the “owner” of the community is alive.
In my opinion and also according to a friend of mine:
“We are decentralized because in reality we are abandoned.”
Taking these points into consideration, it seems to me that if we want to change for the better there will have to be drastic changes, but does our community want that?
What's your opinion?
https://twitter.com/1276003421938692101/status/1608776524370702337
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Thanks for tagging. I just want to be clear there is no owner of SPORTS. I was the founder but everything we do should be done by stakeholder approval and grassroots efforts. That's the importance of using our DAO to decide how things work. There shouldn't be one person in charge making unilateral decisions about how the tribe moves forward. We have a system in place for anyone seeking changes to make a proposal, allow stakeholders to vote and then see that process executed.
We moved away from advertising with the move to the new Hive Engine Outpost condenser because that tooling was never built for Outposts. The old site styling moved to sportstalk.social which I planned to leave running. At some point a change broke that site and no one reported it for months so I assumed that no one was using it and eventually let that domain expire. I'd love to see someone create a PR to get Outposts to support advertising. I think that'd be a good thing for all tribes and could be something done by an outside group that took a bit of the profit from ads and gave the rest back the tribes that participated. This was supposed to be a service from the old Steem Engine days but it never really materialized either.
The delegation to Actifit is from our partnership with them. We made an agreement in the early days that we'd delegate 5000 HP to them if they'd make Actifit be a SPORTS rewarding application. This could be addressed in a proposal to remove the delegation from them and use the Hive for other functions but I highly doubt there will be enough stake in favor to get over the quorum. Some of the top stakeholders are huge Actifit fans and without their support you'd need a very large grassroots movement to get past their vote.
Personally I would love to see a proposal that burnt the existing SPORTS in @sports-gov, traded all assets in it to SWAP.HIVE, then swapped those to SPORTS from the pool and burnt the remaining SPORTS. I'd then like to see the ARCHON governance system dissolved. I don't think we need two DAO structures and now we have the token fund to serve as a funding DAO. I just don't know that we'd have the voting stake to get past the quorum requirements for the old ARCHON governance system.
I agree with that if the community it is mature enough and SportsTalkSocial community have not reached that kind of mature yet.
Look to LeoFinance project they have a mature community and even so, decisions continue to be made by the project team.
Using DAOs and making the community make decisions must be something very well-thought-out, or we could fall into no man's land as is the current moment in our community where nobody can make decisions to make the community move forward.
We had numerous examples in DeFi projects where they introduced DAO without analyzing things properly, ended up destroying the project.
You say you don't own SPS that you were only the founder of, then you own all private keys for community related accounts (@sports-gov, @sportstalksocial, @hive-101690 and @sportsnft).
In my opinion, this makes you the owner of the SPS.
Or is there some way for community members to own these accounts?
Can you share the repository where our front end code is located?
I don't think the fact that the Hive Engine has stopped supporting a feature serves as an excuse for the lack of publicity. Leo Finance continues with some publicity, but soon they are in another level.
Regarding advertising, can you explain why there are funds related to community advertising that have not been transferred to one of the community accounts and remain in a BTC wallet?
What does Actifit “give” or help us?
I only see things that help the Actifit community and that hurt our SPS community.
For me, the fact of saying that a proposal regarding the delegation would hardly pass because most of the stakeholders are from the Actifit community tells me a lot about our decentralization....
DAO is not decentralized and SPS is a hostage of the Actifit community, because in reality they are the ones who have the power to rule our community.
Forget DAOs it's proven that SPS isn't ready for this right now.
Is there any way to reverse this DAO situation?
This is clearly not how we can move forward and try new approaches.
I'm still working to move the keys for those accounts to a multisig quorum for control of @sports-gov which controls @hive-101690 and @sportsnft. @sportstalksocial was removed from community control to serve as an announcements portal for the sportstalksocial.com website and to do community content. https://www.sportstalksocial.com/@patrickulrich/sports-governance-proposal-sports-account-and-distribution-changes I guess you could say I'm still owner at this point based on those points but the goal will be to make sure I am not as soon as I can be confident that the accounts won't be locked in the multisig. I should have already completed that but just haven't got the chance.
https://github.com/hive-engine/outpost is the repository for the outpost sites. As for BTC I would assume that's funds from a-ads.com and probably comingled funds they use. They had automated payouts into the SWAP.BTC address for the funds that are in sports-gov.
Actifit gave us a much larger token distribution for the first few years than we would have achieved on our own. That creates its own issues as you point out but if those users don't want change then forcing it on them isn't the solution either. I'm just speaking from experience when it comes to limiting partnerships with Actifit that stakeholders were not for it when I've opened discussion in the past. Maybe they would see things differently now.
If stakeholders voted a proposal that said to wipe away everything and just have a core team with the rights to influence however they liked then I would think that's fair game to do. I'd be happy to transfer the domain sportstalksocial.com to that team as well if the community wanted someone else to control the project's host domain name. I think if the community votes for it then that's what we should do.
I will try to take some time to look the code and figure out if it is possible to implement some ads without Hive Engine dependency. If no possible, I will try to talk with Hive Engine to understand if they want to return to implement the previous advertising functionality.
I really don’t know if it was a good move to distribute tokens to Actifit, but I am not here to talk about past, since we cannot change past.
I want to help to move forward and improve things in the future.
Are you saying if the community approves a proposal to have a core team, you will transfer everything (all private keys and hosting) to the core team in the current state they are in?
That's awesome! If you think you can get it working I'd want to point the domain to a server that was running your condenser code instead of the HE one. Like I said I think there's an opportunity to offer advertising to more tribes than just SPORTS. I think if someone created that code and ran an advertising service they could bring a lot of help to tribes and even use the advertising revenue to support better hosting than HE provides so tribes win twice.
Definitely. I'd want to follow our existing policy of using the ARCHON governance system for that kind of vote but if the tribe preferred a centralized team to handle things then who would I be to stand in front of their will? The whole point of this token is to create a community around sporting content on Hive. If the community wants something then that's what we are here to deliver on.
https://discord.gg/7Gn59Q7n
Thanks for the analysis. We need to do more as a community. I believe we can be one of the best community in hive, only if we want to
I also think that a well-run sports community can have enormous potential, but honestly I don't know if the current SPS community wants that to happen.
It seems to me that many of the stakeholders don't want to know about the SPS because in reality they are from other communities that manage to farm our token.
Thanks @cryptosimplify I think this post was needed. I think we need to make these changes that Patrick pointed out or we might be dead in the water.
Honestly, I don't know if this answer is sarcastic or if it's really real, because just look at my answer to Patrick and you can see that at this moment the SportTalkSocial community is in no man's land, or rather it's in the hands of the Actifit community.
No no I was being serious.
I really think we need to move foward and try to make our community better.
It needs to be discussed on our discord. If we put our heads together and see whats needed to be done, I am sure a few of us would have the reach to get the vote through?
Can you share with me the discord link?
I left sometime ago since anyone was talking about anything important
not really preey much dorment.
https://discord.gg/7Gn59Q7n
However, I dont know if the community really wants the proposed changes
Well something is better than nothing at all. So much potential in this community
I feel the same way... This community can have a big potential, but it is necessary to do drastic changes otherwise we will not move forward.
I think currently we really need to have a core team and put on hold the DAO.
I agree. Might be worth having a call amongst the stakeholders or a group that want to kick on and do what's best for the community.
That is What I think it is better.
Have a group of people that will be "core team" and start to do something to change thinga
Yay! 🤗
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I don't think that you can or should run a business as a decentralized entity. A blockchain is different to a business and if you want to fix things you need an owner or ownership group IMO. A group of people with a clear plan and vision that are willing to put in the time, effort and money to bring it to light.
Leofinance are a good example of this with a clear ownership structure that is supplemented by volunteers and feedback form the community. I'm really excited to see how their new website progresses in 2023 and the fact that they can generate 4K a month already form a small site shows the potential that there is for generating revenue and for growing a project.
My preference would eb to scrap sportstalk and start a new sports project from scratch in a totally new format and without the terrible tokenomics that have plagued the project since day 1. I think that it would be much easier than try to walk back all of the issues that exist with the community right now and while that might not suit a lot of the larger stakeholders if the token is going to zero anyway then it would be the same result in the long run.
Maybe it can be fixed but there would be a lot to do and i don't even know if you can do it with an owner, dao and legacy isssues.
There is a lot to talk about but i still feel that a proper web3 sports site could be a huge draw with the right format.
I share the same opinion that a community that turns out to be in some way a company that should work for its users and cannot be somewhat decentralized because there are issues that cannot wait indefinitely to decide.
Undoubtedly, LeoFinance is an excellent example where having a team makes it possible to take important decisions, bringing developments to the community.
I can share that the first thing I thought of was creating a community from scratch without having the SPS history, but I think it is still possible for us to continue with the same community and manage to evolve from now on, even if this requires time and determination from the people who stand in front of the community.
My thinking is that by continuing with our community, this will be a marathon and not a sprint, but it doesn't take away from me trying to do something to make it grow.
That's why I decided to create a proposal in the community and understand what the community's will is.
I think that a tribe should be a business rather than just a community. It takes a lot of time and effort to set up and maintain a tribe then add in a monetized layer through hive and it's more than just a group of people sharing posts.
Sports has the potential to be a massive tribe if it's done right. A proper website, communities, mobile app and a million users over time.
Built from the ground up and with proper sustainable tokenomics and a good business model that creates income and pays for itself.
If enough people want to try and improve what we have already then i'll help where i can and try to make the best of it but what i would love to see is a real team of people that sit down and draw up a new site that is done right from the get go.
The community on sportstalk would soon move over once they see a much better product with long term potential.
Either option would be a marathon that could end in failure but that is every single start up. It would need start up funds but could generate a revenue soon after development and launch. Some to the team for further development and the rest back to the token holders through dividends or burns.
I completely understand the point of view, in fact I honestly came to think instead of creating a community with its own curated and inflationary token, a business model would be to create a community with a token with a max supply and that would not be inflationary and whoever buys the token would earn dividends that the front end publicity generates.
Undoubtedly, a tribe about sport has the potential to be something massive, as it is above religion and politics and is a topic spoken worldwide.
Trying to improve what we have now would not require a large investment that if we start completely from zero must exist.
But yes, you are absolutely right when you say that if we start something from zero that has value and a good long-term project, people would end up moving there.
Hello, personally I found interesting the sportstalksocial community and its governance, but I am not an expert and I don't well know how to improve it. I share my Actifit posts and cycling related posts, and I used the rewards to implement my influence in the community. I didn't generate an income with the SPORT tokens. I took a look at the proposals, but I didn't understand very well which ones are the focus and the real initiatives to implement in the sportstalk social ecosystem. Maybe can you help me? :)
Ps: at the moment, I am not an active user on Hive due to a bad situation with Hivewatchers policies. I don't know if voting proposals is the correct way to follow; anyway, I am interested in the understanding of new views about the future of the Sportstalk Social community :)
The initiative is to bring our community to another level.
Currently, the so-called decentralized management has done nothing for our community to grow since there are few active users who are truly interested in the community.
Many look to this community as just another token to farm and sell.
I believe that a sports community has much more potential than what is happening in our community, but in order to be able to make important decisions and implement things more quickly, you need to have a group of people who, in case we don't have an answer in useful time by the community so they end up deciding the course of events.
Personally, I find this a valid initiative, but I think that the focus is on the contents and I think that it's necessary a more concrete way (for example an idea about a contest, an idea about an initiative to make higher the number of posts, and so on) to explain how to improve the use of the platform and the community.
Just read through this. Sorry I had missed. I have been only curating of late lest I loss my investment. I'm following up other of your posts.
I believe in the future that sports can bring to Hive and I'm willing to work with whoever can salvage the miry situation of sportstalksocial community.
Currently, the only one that can set up anything it is the community owner or someone creates a proposal a DAO proposal to change things and then have more than 50% voting yes.
However, the only one that have used the DAO proposals was the community owner since almost no one knows how to do it.