Hivechess Tournament Season 13 Round 4:@maestroask was the winner and some questionable draws
Dear chess fans,
the fourth round of Season 13 was played yesterday with 32 players - a 5+0 Blitz arena.
After several changes in the leading position at the end @maestroask (Odnoobraz_bcm) could again win this tournament with an impressive 100% score - his third win this season. Runner-up was @lucianosky (Pavarotty) and @eniolw was third. Congratulations to All!
In this position between @lucianosky (White) and @sawko a draw was agreed.
https://lichess.org/A8WsUMcM/white#3
Furthermore in these 2 positions from @sawko against @eniolw...
https://lichess.org/OWMy28Vx/black#19
https://lichess.org/y7HwrRzT/white#18
...a draw was agreed as well.
What happened? I think we should not encourage such draws, as this gives a time advantage to those players in the arena format (they quickly get a point and can move on to a new game). In top level chess it is even not allowed to agree draws without playing. Should we establish such rules also for Hivechess? Please let me know your thoughts!
The biggest upset in round 4 was this victory of @sammy00 (migmag) against @lucianosky (rating difference 887 - a record!) who had overlooked a backrank mate. @sammy00 immediately grabbed this rare opportunity and therefore 1 Hive and 5 LEO go to him!
Link to the tournament: https://lichess.org/tournament/pMvRCDey
Season 13: 02 Sep to 04 Nov 2022 / Ranking after 4 rounds:
| Rank | Hive name | Lichess name | Rating | Rounds played | Points | Performance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1(+1) | @maestroask | Odnoobraz_bcm | 2614 | 4 | 127 | 2562,8 |
| 2(-1) | @sawko | CM sawkito | 2439 | 4 | 126 | 2363,8 |
| 3 | @tony1294 | tony1294 | 2269 | 4 | 123 | 2251 |
| 4 | @eniolw | eniolw | 2374 | 4 | 116 | 2301,5 |
| 5 | @pamboy27 | pamboy27 | 2165 | 4 | 105 | 1992,8 |
| 6(+4) | @lucianosky | Pavarotty | 2333 | 3 | 102 | 2357 |
| 7(+1) | @samostically | ZGM_Samostically | 2098 | 4 | 101 | 2034,5 |
| 8(-1) | @fcastro177 | FCastro17 | 2124 | 4 | 100 | 2111 |
| 9 | @rosmarly | rosmarly | 2060 | 4 | 97 | 2114,5 |
| 10(-4) | @kintokris | jonbellionfan | 2013 | 4 | 97 | 2053,5 |
| 11 | @emic | emichessmaster | 2087 | 4 | 86 | 2045,8 |
| 12 | @stayoutoftherz | stayoutoftherz | 1981 | 4 | 82 | 1921,5 |
| 13(+4) | @wildthougts | Wildthougts | 2224 | 3 | 77 | 2116,3 |
| 14 | @andzhi | andzh1 | 1947 | 3 | 77 | 2036,7 |
| 15(-2) | @iammanythings | iammanythings | 2149 | 4 | 77 | 1943 |
| 16(-1) | @vjap55 | vjap55 | 2076 | 4 | 73 | 1953,5 |
| 17(-1) | @beyondhorizonmm | beyondhorizonmm | 1644 | 4 | 64 | 1759,8 |
| 18(+1) | @b0s | Da_k1ng | 1635 | 4 | 57 | 1610 |
| 19(-1) | @stranger27 | stranger27 | 1690 | 4 | 54 | 1722,5 |
| 20(+2) | @lighteye | lighteye | 1684 | 4 | 48 | 1783,5 |
| 21(+4) | @rodrook | rodrook | 1467 | 3 | 46 | 1807,7 |
| 22(-1) | @agreste | agreste | 1740 | 4 | 46 | 1732,3 |
| 23(-3) | @kreur | Kreur | 2064 | 2 | 41 | 2226 |
| 24(+6) | @schamangerbert | HerbyW | 1765 | 3 | 40 | 1819 |
| 25(+3) | @sammy00 | migmag | 1479 | 4 | 37 | 1636 |
| 26(+13) | @petreius | petreius | 1886 | 2 | 35 | 1826 |
| 27(-4) | @yazp | zulukill | 1988 | 1 | 34 | 2061 |
| 28(-4) | @? | G174R | 2045 | 1 | 33 | 2021 |
| 29(-2) | @fiona777 | fiona777 | 1502 | 4 | 31 | 1556 |
| 30(-4) | @? | Oyuncu07a | 2436? | 1 | 29 | 2453 |
| 31(-4) | @? | ajedrez_64 | 2070 | 1 | 25 | 2071 |
| 32(+4) | @pokerarema | ragnarokgame | 1406 | 4 | 23 | 1523 |
| 33(-2) | @? | Gornyi_Roman | 2007 | 1 | 22 | 1818 |
| 34(-2) | @? | art_rozov_17 | 1715 | 1 | 21 | 1774 |
| 35(-2) | @? | Bishopmaker2018 | 1840 | 1 | 20 | 1783 |
| 36(-1) | @maciejficek | XM9000 | 1471 | 4 | 20 | 1473,8 |
| 37(-3) | @vasigo | vasigo | 1265 | 4 | 20 | 1392,3 |
| 38(-3) | @? | bassam49 | 1608 | 1 | 17 | 1858 |
| 39(-1) | @? | Alireza_1342 | 1662 | 1 | 15 | 1985 |
| 40 | @deadleaf | realdeadleaf | 2144 | 1 | 13 | 1628 |
| 41 | @? | Yetundefemii | 1880 | 2 | 11 | 1790 |
| 42 | @philipp87 | Philipp87 | 1773 | 1 | 10 | 1651 |
| 43 | @? | moscatel10 | 1783 | 1 | 9 | 1748 |
| 44 | @grafo07 | Grafo_07 | 1055 | 2 | 9 | 1383,5 |
| 45(new) | @anomadsoul | anomadsoul | 1436 | 1 | 8 | 1633 |
| 46(-1) | @falcout | falcout | 1538 | 1 | 8 | 1584 |
| 47(-1) | @ptmaker | ptmaker | 1526 | 1 | 8 | 1527 |
| 48(-1) | @? | emprendemesta | 2022 | 1 | 6 | 1993 |
| 49(+1) | @mypathtofire | mypathtofire | 1289 | 2 | 4 | 1144,5 |
| 50(-2) | @? | juliandav | 2058 | 1 | 3 | 1827 |
| 51(-2) | @artistparthoroy | artistparthoroy | 1075 | 2 | 3 | 1212 |
| 52(new) | @ajumaa | Chocho2 | 1308? | 1 | 1 | 964 |
The rules you can look up in the S13 announcement post.
After 4 rounds @maestroask (Odnoobraz_bcm) took back the lead, but only one point ahead of @sawko, also the third, @tony1294 is only 4 points behind. The gap to the fourth, @eniolw, is already 11 points, but with 6 rounds to go all is possible still.
See you all next week - and keep practicing!
Just saw this, maybe a Hive Chess theme song?
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He was so good I didn't care.
Credit: reddit
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Another week of playing below my rating. I need to improve
Well, I'm totally against quick draws however, it doesn't count on lichess. Lichess would score zero for draws accepted before a certain move number.
Indeed, those draws resulted in 0 points. Then I guess we don´t have to do any actions 😄.
I am pretty sure players at their level are aware of the rule. If they feel this move improves their chances in the tournament (I think they are right that it does), you need to blame the organisers for creating a tournament structure that encourages such play. Not the players who are vaguely requested to try hard to win without specifying if they should go for winning the current game or the entire tournament. Asking them to win the games could be compared to asking them not to give up their Queen on move 45. I know it is mate in four if opponent takes but deliberately losing major pieces is a clear manipulation, right?
BTW, I got a questionable draw as well. I was a Pawn down with no compensation but there was 10 seconds on the tournament clock so my opponent offered draw. Does it make any sense not to count games that finish late? I cannot see any, tbh.
I think Arena is a dumb format that is intended to be played for laughs. If you want a serious competition, you should go Swiss.
That being said, I blame the guy who turned Arena streaks off because that is the exact mechanics that encourages people at the top of the rankings to play each other (as opposed to quick-drawing). Yeah, that would be you.
Good points, indeed all measures have some unintended consequences. I will change the rules to dis-encourage some of the discussed behavior, but to offer a draw so that a game still counts I will leave unpunished, because it is also unfair that a player spent time and nerves on a game and would be then not rewarded because of a few seconds. I know, not an ideal situation.
The streaks may have the negative effects you described, but to have them is even worse, as it adds a huge element of luck, given the sometimes random pairing in arenas with few players. Why should someone get 2 points for free, if he had only a lucky streak of lower ranked opponents? Why should generally stronger players for which most of the players are easy to beat, get many extra points by the streaks? They have already a huge advantage by playing in the same league as the others. So in future I plan 2 separate skill leagues. Just need to work out the details.
Thanks, I happen to know more about running gaming tournaments than about moving chess pieces around the board.
Adding luck is the sole purpose of Arena.
Why not disallowing Berserk under the some logic?
This is terrible idea. I assume the lower bracket still has cash prizes, begging strong players to maintain low-ranked alts. Weak players have still no shot at winning prizes meeting tough opposition - just on different accounts - crushing their confidence, ratings and plain out discouraging attendance in the long term. I would rather have it at no prizes.
BTW, giving a 1200 player a rare opportunity to play a titled opposition is just another feature (selling point if you wish) of Arenas. You do not even get that in the first round of a Swiss with all the bullshit bloodbath-seeding (you need to be in the middle of the field to get the star opponent in either first or second round).
Berserk allows more fun by handicapping uneven games. Streaks allow more fun by giving more people a shot at winning the tournament. If this series is supposed to find the champion rather than attracting large fields, you should - I repeat - avoid the Arena format in the first place.
I managed to bag a win and climb one place . 😊😎
💪
You had a couple of tough opponents.
Hi! I think that, even if they don't score points, it should not be allowed in arena. It occurs to me, for example, that two who are very high in the standings (second and third, for example) could make quick draws hoping that the next pairing will favor them and, thus, be able to play against lower ranked players and easily score points in berserk.
Another thing that is open to manipulation, it seems to me, are the prizes for the game with the highest rating difference, because some might keep their lichess account at a low ranking to have a better chance of winning that prize. I'm not saying it's currently happening, but it could happen.
And the last thing, I think it's great that new players are creating a Hive account, because that means that the tournament is bringing new users to the platform. But if a user stays with 0 posts, 0 HP and no interaction with other users, it doesn't seem to me to add up. Maybe it would be good if the prizes are conditional on a certain level of commitment to the growth of our blockchain. !PIZZA
@stayoutoftherz, he made some nice points. I think there should be no tolerance for the quick draws. Like he rightly spotted, it gives chance for them to play a different opponent quickly which I didn't even think of.
Indeed.
Do you think there should be no tolerance for the quick resignations either?
Thanks for your feedback, you are totally right, both with the fast draws which give an unfair advantage and also with Hive accounts which are made but then not used. The risk that someone on purpose keeps a low rating is there, true, but for now this seems not very likely, given that even a low rating does not secure such a special price - so far each round had a different price winner.
I will think about it how to adapt the rules accordingly.
Congratulations to those who won the chess, they are geniuses, in every step it is certain that they will be safely controlled in the future.
Extraordinary!
Congratulation for the winners.I didn't know there is a chess tournament also in hive..lol
I'll check about it.Thanks for sharing tournament Statics.
Hey I would like to join at next one. My lichess name is HelloxD
Welcome! Just register at the team and stay tuned for the next Fridays round!
registered...thanks
we just made some draws because I think @sawko was having connection problems during the game
Could well be, but the doubt remains, as the draws were only between certain players. Could be of course coincidence.
If your opponent has connection troubles, their tournament is ruined either way. No problems if your conscience prevents you from taking a win there but the proper way to satisfy a Messiah complex is resigning to compensate them for their misfortune.
However, this sounds like someone who feels they have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. To start with, you did not "make some draws", your account had one single draw by agreement in the tourney. Secondly, it happened on the second move with no thinking time spent (yeah, lags are compensated but it is hard to see where your story comes from unless there is some evidence).
I do not think that your actions qualify as cheating. If someone else does, they can elaborate on my points.
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Regarding draws, my opinion is this: if both players want to make a draw, they will make it. And I don't see anything wrong with that. Tournaments are played for the sake of the overall tournament result, not with the obligation to win every game at any cost. If a player believes that a draw will improve his tournament position, he can offer a draw. If the opponent is also sure that a draw will improve his tournament position, he can agree. The result was determined by the players themselves at the board, without the participation of third parties or cheating technologies? So, everything is fine.
In addition, the Arena system itself is unfair and does not aim to determine the best chess players in the tournament - only those who will be able to score as many points as possible in the time allotted for the tournament. Quick draws, it turns out, quite correspond to the spirit of the Arena. However, even according to the Arena system, no one has yet won a single tournament due to draws.
Thanks for your feedback. Indeed the arena format is flawed, but we don´t have too much choices, Swiss tournaments are hardly possible with a reasonable thinking time in 1 to 1,5 hours and I think 7 rounds are less than optimal in our group of 30 players. They are better for a large player pool.
Nevertheless we should find ways of how to improve what we have.
Also in many high-level tournaments early draws are forbidden, as you know.
Yes, every tournament system has its pros and cons in different circumstances. Players have to keep all this in mind in order to achieve good results. Therefore, it is rare to see many short draws in the first rounds of the big Swiss, but this is a common thing in a round-robin GM or IM tournament.
Restrictions on draws in top-level tournaments are a commercial decision of the organizers, not the choice of the players. In some cases, this may have something to do with the sale of entrance tickets or advertising time. In other cases, when the organizers do not expect any profit from the tournament, there are no reasonable reasons for restrictions at all. When I was actively playing offline tournaments, I always just ignored tournaments with restrictions on draws, no matter what the conditions or prizes were. Of course, this was largely facilitated by the fact that I never claimed to get into the ranks of top-GMs. :)
Dear @stayoutoftherz,
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Thank you!
Done!
Thank you for your support @stayoutoftherz, really appreciate it! 👍
Greetings colleagues! The tournament gap, the league is short, there is a good level in the tournament. Arenas will always have pros and cons, in particular I have never agreed with paced arenas (increase, eg 3+2 4+1, 5+2. Etc); I like the 3+0 arena rhythms and that Berserk is included! It is a suggestion that the organizer can take for a future event! Greetings colleagues
I had connection problems, I was on my way to a round of a chess tournament, practically playing while crossing the streets 😂.
congrats all
we start trip just after tournament started so I managed to play couple games only
around 4000km in just 6 days
knight and rock were nice combination this time - that game was going opposite way until last move @lucianosky was crushing from the start