Sports Talk Social: The Community's Future

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I recently made a post where I analyzed how our community has performed over the past two years.

I believe that a sports community has all the potential to be one of the greatest communities, as it is a huge topic, with many passionate people who like to talk and talk about it.

Right now, unfortunately, our community is in no man's land because nobody really understands how the DAO works, and we have a lot of stakeholders who are not really interested in our community.

This makes it currently impossible to implement any idea.

My proposal would be to put the DAO on hold and have a core team at least until we are all satisfied with the state of the community and think that the DAO can be reactivated again.

The core team would initially be composed of 2 elements:

  • @cryptoancoffee -> a very active and well-known user of our community who shares a great passion talking about sports

  • @cryptosimplify -> a reasonably active user, practicing federated sports and with experience in software development/management

So that decisions are not made by just two people, a discussion group will be set up in which we consider including people like @blanchy, @talesfrmthecrypt, @empress-eremmy and @niallon11.

However, we will still have to talk to each of these people to find out if they would be interested.

The proposed initial roadmap is:

  • transfer all private keys of the @patrickulrich community accounts to the core team;
  • transfer the @patrickulrich domain to the core team;
  • analyze the current status of the SPORTS tokenomics;
  • analyze whether the cut rule on SPORTS rewards is cut in half if the post is created outside our front end;
  • burn all liquidity SPORTS that exist in community accounts (except @sport-gov due to active proposals);
  • rebrand community logo and SPS token logo;
  • re-analyze/deploy advertising on our front end (the return generated by this publicity will be used to make SPORTS buy backs & burns and to increase the Hive HP of the community accounts)
  • analyze whether it makes sense for our community to invest in tokens that will generate dividends (another form of passive income that will allow more buy backs & burns)

If this proposal is approved, no community money will be asked or used for this change to occur.

To Support our proposal, please follow this link



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93 comments
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(Edited)
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Sorry, but currently I'm getting a little tired since I've been here debating ideas and trying to show that something needed to change.

A quick summary:
I've been in this community for just over two years and during this time I think that few things or almost nothing has been improved and we continue to be just another tribe when we have a theme at the level called Sport that everyone in the world talks about .
However, we were not able to capture new users or even keep the users who are here.

My idea would be to have a drastic change in the management of the community so that we can try to take steps forward and reach another level.... but it seems that after all, the thing is not seen by many people.

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Yeah I see where you are coming from and I know you mean well for the community it is a welcome idea but will take time for others to see the need I will advise you keep pushing don't relent. I am in support of your thoughts for the community hopefully the big guys react positively to this new development.

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Seriously, I have been thinking of this on my own, I'm glad you can push this out. I appreciate your positive effort concerning the community. I am in support of the idea. Sports tribe could be one of the most interesting tribe on hive, but I keep wondering what could go wrong.

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Thanks a lot for the support.

However this will not ahead since many community members dont want it.

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Sounds good @cryptosimplify . We need to be proactive and get this community where it should be. Up there with the Leo's and the Splinterlands of this world.

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Thanks a lot for your support.

I hope the community approve the proposal in order we be able to improve our community.

If you can, please to go proposals and vote on this proposal.

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We'd love to hear what parts sound good to you. While this proposal isn't valid for governance matters we'd love to see future proposals that help the tribe improve.

Posted using SportsTalkSocial

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Yep, sounds good to me, I'm all for it. Great to see you involved @cryptosimplify

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Thanks a lot for your support.

Let's improve our community.

If you can, please go to proposals and vote on this proposal.

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I tried to click vote button, but does not seem to do anything?

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It does because some community members have already cast their vote in the proposal.

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Is Patrick on board with this? You are right, I have been out of the loop for while now but I do regularly post on the platform and as a moderate stakeholder I would be interested in being part of that discussion group.

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(Edited)

I discussed with Patrick in this post about change the community control to a core team, and he said that is ok if the community agree with that.

So I had the initiative to create a proposal to see if the community wants these changes because we can have all ideas but if the community doesn't agree with them, it's not worth thinking about doing different things.

As for a response to this proposal, I would encourage the community to not vote on this funding proposal and, as written, any governance proposal that may come of it.
I don't know why any stakeholders, beyond those chosen as having a voice, would vote to remove their voice in governance to give a very small group those authorities. However, as I've stated if a governance proposal was approved then I would be willing to follow the community requests.

But looking at the latest response from @sportstalksocial account that I think that was written by @patrickulrich I would say that it seems that the opinion about the possible changes is no longer welcome.

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We don't welcome these changes but want the community to have any option they'd see fit. If that would be to have a centralized group operating things then that's the stakeholder's decision to make. We aren't in favor of it though.

Posted using SportsTalkSocial

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I think anything that is done needs to be done with the approval of the community. The handing over of keys is nothing to take lightly, so I wanted to make sure this was all above board. Like I said, I am heavily invested in this community even though I might not be active in the Discord. I want it to do well. I don't think a coup or even the impression of a coup is the way to do it though. Either way, whatever happens moving forward. I just wanted you to know that I am interesting in being part of the discussions.

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It's certainly above board in that I would be willing to make the transfer of the keys for all community accounts if the community voted a governance proposal that told me to do that. I just don't see the value in doing so. I feel like we've already dealt with key management in the last governance proposal and that we have more important things to focus on than playing hot potato with who's in charge. I'd rather keep things where no one is in charge and stakeholders can vote as needed.

If I were to transfer them over what I'd prefer to see is them moved to a witnesss based multisig system. Each witness would run a node with governance built into the code. The code should allow SPORTS stakeholders to vote for witnesses with onchain json. If witness consensus changes and a witness is un-elected and a new witness is elected then the node software should automatically create a multisig transaction changing the signers that the other witnesses would sign thus changing the keys to match the newly elected witnesses. If a witness didn't sign on so many consecutive blocks then they would automatically be pulled from consensus until they started signing blocks again.

I think that's the real place we'd need to go to but I don't have the development skills to create that. If we did have that built we could even build in all the functionality of the ARCHON system without relying on another tribe to manage it.

What's even more exciting is with a system for witnesses like that it could be expanded into other witness groups that say were elected to serve as Oracles for other kinds of voting systems. This could lead to someone creating SPORTS gaming systems based on decentralized elected oracle witnesses. We could have sports gaming where people put SPORTS into an account controlled by a multisig of oracle witnesses and as they sign oracle information they pay out to anyone participating.

The problem isn't ideas, it's finding people who can implement ideas into executable code.

Posted using SportsTalkSocial

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I think they are working on that behind the scenes as far as the Hive side of things. From what I have heard anyway. I know that Hive Engine and Splinterlands already have their own nodes, but with some of the stuff DLUX (I think) is doing, it could be any community running their own nodes and having governance that way. I get there is a lot of background stuff that needs to happen to get us there. As you said, I think right now we have some other more pressing issues to deal with. At the very least I am glad people are finally starting to care a little more.

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Yeah I'm interested in what's being built on the DLUX layer. I could see us making the move over at some point when you compare the feature roadmaps of Hive Engine / DLUX. Maybe I'm out of the HE dev loop but I haven't heard anything in the pipes for solutions like that on this side.

Posted using SportsTalkSocial

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Taskmaster has touched in some of it a couple of times. I think they are working from a couple of different angles between a couple of different teams.

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Really dont know What to answer you since currently there are no discussion group in our community and anything happens.

And it appears that I am the only one trying to move things forward but at same time I am the bad guy in this story.

So... Maybe I am the problem

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So that decisions are not made by just two people, a discussion group will be set up in which we consider including people like @blanchy, @talesfrmthecrypt, @empress-eremmy and @niallon11.

I was referring to this. If it were to go through, I would want to be part of that group.

Like you said, it doesn't appear as though it will. I wouldn't give up though. I think you can find a compromise. Have you thought about starting a Discord chat with key stakeholders to come up with a proposal that would meet most everyone's needs?

I think all of us have a vested interest and would like to see the SPORTS community be successful.

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Our discoord it is almost without activity and no one until today wanted to discuss or talk about the community growing.

I dont know if it is your case or not but I cannot understand how we are delegating 5k HP to Actifity and we dont get nothing back and to delegate it we need an aprove of stake holders here some whales are from actifity community and not from sports talk community

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I personally don't like using Discord, Telegram or even Matrix because we have on-chain communication that works even better. I'm still up for making any changes to improve them though. I just haven't heard anything beyond people saying there's no activity which I've tried to address by linking them across multiple centralized networks to make it easier to join.

We get the inclusion of the SPORTS token into an app that is distributing tokens to more users than any other app in our ecosystem. I think that's a pretty spectactular deal for us to be honest.

That being said if Actifit is just leeching from our ecosystem then it wouldn't take long for the market conditions to change that non-Actifit holding stakeholders would be the ones building stake to lead the community away from Actifit. If that partnership isn't also breeding SPORTS stakeholders then proposal conditions would change in time allowing us to remove the delegation.

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And why is there almost no activity on any of our Discord, Telegram, etc or even Twitter?
Maybe because we're not managing to keep people interested in the community and wanting to talk.

Seriously, was it a good deal? I don't see LeoFinance doing that and they are way better than us and with a super active community even when their tokens have devalued.
It seems to me that this was not so beneficial for us since we have the token being distributed in droves out there.

Do you think people will invest I don't know how much money in a token from an "almost" dead community to try to remove a culprit that is clearly not beneficial?
If there are still active users in the community who create good/excellent content about sports, we can thank ODC and some Hive users who have good stakes and will still vote here because if it were for our token, many of these users would be gone although.

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(Edited)

why is there almost no activity on any of our Discord, Telegram, etc or even Twitter?

Happy to help you with your proposal to handle social media for the tribe.

Do you think people will invest I don't know how much money in a token from an "almost" dead community to try to remove a culprit that is clearly not beneficial?

No but they aren't being given SPORTS stake. If they aren't providing valuable content to stakeholders then their share of the tribe will diminish without anyone having to purchase them out. Unless of course the content creators are just selling off their stake and the Actifit community is the one buying. Wouldn't know anyone that sells off all the stake they earn in the community would you?

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Happy to help you with your proposal to handle social media for the tribe.

I am not a social media manager but thanks.

No but they aren't being given SPORTS stake. If they aren't providing valuable content to stakeholders then their share of the tribe will diminish without anyone having to purchase them out. Unless of course the content creators are just selling off their stake and the Actifit community is the one buying. Wouldn't know anyone that sells off all the stake they earn in the community would you?

I don't know if there are people selling all the SPORTS they earn or not, but even if there are, they are within their rights since this is about blockchain and whoever has the private keys decides what to do with their assets.

The fact that, from the beginning, the Actifit community has had access to more SPORTS makes the elements of that community win more SPORTS, so they always end up increasing their stake so that the community can have enough stake to approve something they need to invest a considerable amount.

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the Actifit community has had access to more SPORTS makes the elements of that community win more SPORTS

How? They have a Hive delegation.

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And they have also SPORTS staked from contract distribution.

So if they but on Actifity community content that uses sports or sportstalksocial whey will receive more SPORTS ;)

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I think you mean the portion that Actifit keeps for the app beneficiary. They receive the same amount if you assume the creators are likely Actifit friendly anyway. Even if you assume the Actifit users would potentially be less Actifit friendly than Actifit themselves well Actifit only has around 5M SPORTS (0.27% of Governance Power) or roughly 64 Hive worth of stake so it's not like they are a huge voting block.

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Am really glad there are people who are still very interested in the community. We need more frequent discussions like this if not any other thing. For changes I'll still be seeking opinions of a few respected persons in the community before casting my vote, but I honestly appreciate the concern. This conversation is necessary.

Should the proposal scale through, I'll like to be replaced by @bozz as I barely manage to find time for Hive generally these days due to personal reasons. I'm very open to lending a helping hand in other ways in the future

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I don't think you're a problem at all @cryptosimplify. You see an issue and you're trying to provide solutions to get it fixed. I think that's admirable. I just think you are just targetting the wrong problem.

We've tried lots of things in the tribe. As I've tried to point out we've even tried to implement a lot of the ideas you presented in the past because they're good ideas.

I don't think we've had a shortage of ideas in SPORTS. I think we've had a shortage of people that can execute them in development. That's where I think you could take us to a whole different level. You have development skills that most of us don't have. We haven't had a need for a new key holder because I only do what the tribe asks anyways. What I think we need is someone who can build things the tribe needs. I think that's the problem that needs targetting.

Posted using SportsTalkSocial

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I can understand the lack of development skill but there other ideas that is not necessary be a dev to implement.

But we cannot do it because of DAO since our community it is owner by Actifity users

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I don't think there are many things that Actifit users would block to be honest. The only ones I could see are ones that limit them in some way like removing their delegation from @sports-gov and thus ending the partnership. I can't imagine that many of their backers would be excited for that. Otherwise what would we want to do that they wouldn't support if it makes the tribe better?

Posted using SportsTalkSocial

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It is this a partnership?

Partnership or a partnership is a relationship in which two or more people, organizations, or countries work together as partners.

In this case, I don't see any good thing for our side.
Since @actifit.rewards uses our delegation to vote on Actifit community posts, and we don't receive anything.

How this is good for sports talk social?

I am not able to see how this is benefit for us.

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We get the inclusion of the SPORTS token into an app that is distributing tokens to more users than any other app in our ecosystem. Those users then either 1) sell SPORTS making it cheaper for non-Actifit users to acquire SPORTS 2) hold/stake SPORTS thus keeping more tokens off the market and supporting content they appreciate.

If it's option 1 then we'll see enough stake ready to move away from that deal with time. If it's option 2 then not only are they distributing out to a large group they're also creating token holders it would seem.

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I think this image show more than words that we need a lot of changes

image.png

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That has nothing to do with Actifit?

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I know that but my post it is not only about Actifit it is about sports talk community and this is related with the community

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Actually, I am so surprised that this community is not much higher and alrger. Sports is such a big part of people's lives. I think it is a great initiative to get this community where it should belong :)

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Our goal is to try to change things on our community in order to make possible we grow and put our value higher because was you said sports is an huge topic that is present every where.

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@cryptosimplify - please create an ARCHON proposal for this kind of governance change. The proposal you've created is to receive funds back from our token fund. We currently still use ARCHON's Governance system for making tribe governance decisions. You can read more about ARCHON's governance system here:

https://www.sportstalksocial.com/@sportstalksocial/proposals-and-petitions-are-active

I would recommend using a prompt something like this for your Governance proposal:

account = "sports-gov"

nodelist = NodeList()
nodelist.update_nodes()
nodes = nodelist.get_nodes(hive=True)
hive = Hive(node=nodes)


def transfer_token(to, amount, symbol, memo, account):
    he_wallet = Wallet(account, blockchain_instance=hive)
    transfer_tx = he_wallet.transfer(to, amount, symbol, memo)
    time.sleep(1)
    c = Comment(loaded_post, steem_instance=hive)
    c.reply(str(transfer_tx), "stake_tx", account)

transfer_token("sports-gov", 1, "SPORTS", "Please forward keys for this account to @userthatshouldreceive in an encrypted memo", account)

time.sleep(1)

transfer_token("sportsnft", 1, "SPORTS", "Please forward keys for this account to @userthatshouldreceive in an encrypted memo", account)

time.sleep(1)

transfer_token("patrickulrich", 1, "SPORTS", "Please unlock the domain sportstalksocial.com from your current registrar and forward verification code in encrpyted memo to @userthatshouldreceive", account)

time.sleep(1)

transfer_token("null", 1, "SPORTS", "sports burn", account)

!end

You'll want to note that above needs to be entered as it is as the start of the message. This is explained in more detail on the link I posted above + the the link it points to. Once you have those pieces in place then it would be a valid proposal. It's also much more defined and lays our clear requests from the users you're requesting information from.


As for a response to this proposal I would encourage the community to no vote on this funding proposal and, as written, any goverrnance proposal that may come of it.

I don't know why any stakeholders, beyond those chosen as having a voice, would vote to remove their voice in governace to give a very small group those authorities. However as I've stated if a governance proposal was approved then I would be willing to follow the community requests.

transfer all private keys of the @patrickulrich community accounts to the core team

This accomplishes what beyond changing the trust from the current "team" to a new "team" that doesn't have the key management experience of holding these accounts since the tribes formation.

transfer the @patrickulrich domain to the core team

This accomplishes what beyond changing the trusted site administrator from the current "team" to a new "team" that hasn't identified why such a change is needed. We've already offered to run any potential code forks for site enhancements if they were developed. If you are going to put this in be sure to define what domains you expect to receive.

analyze the current status of the SPORTS tokenomics

This is too broad to respond to but I'd encourage stakeholders to remember that changing tokenomics affects two parties, one positively and another negatively, be sure to have any potential tribe governance be clear on their requests.

analyze whether the cut rule on SPORTS rewards is cut in half if the post is created outside our front end

I can save you the time of analyzing anything, this isn't even possible on Hive Engine for tribes on the Hive Engine SMT.

burn all liquidity SPORTS that exist in community accounts (except @sport-gov due to active proposals)

We'd support the idea of utilizing the funds in @sports-gov more productively and look forward to building community support for a proposal to deal with those funds in a more thought out plan than presented above.

rebrand community logo and SPS token logo

We encourage anyone who has ideas for our community logos to post them to chain and seek proposals to be adopted by the community. Artists can also request funding for such designs through our token fund that you've posted this to. Are you saying that your opinion is better than that of the entire community voting on such a matter?

re-analyze/deploy advertising on our front end

We've been open to having this created for a long time. If you have PRs that can enable this functionality we encourage you to push them upstream to the Hive Engine repository so they can deploy them to the community. We would happily vote on any token fund requests to reimburse users for submitting such PRs.

I am happy to see users seeking changes but wish these were presented to advance the tribe versus put the tribe under some kind of control of a small group of users. I encourage anyone who thinks they can improve the tribe to seek doing so with proposals that allow anyone to vote and make their stake in the community heard.

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Please create an ARCHON proposal for this kind of governance change.

Thank you very much for clarifying how you would have to create a proposal for this type of changes, because the proposal system is so complicated since we have an option called Proposals in the front end, but after all it is only for funds and there is the ARCHON system which is too complex for many users as a script needs to be written and no information about this is fixed or displayed in our community.

At this moment, only you know how to work with this DAO and this style of governance.

As for a response to this proposal I would encourage the community to no vote on this funding proposal and, as written, any goverrnance proposal that may come of it.

It's amazing how we've heard nothing from the @sportstalksocial account for 8 months other than the curation reports made by @cryptoandcoffee, the automated responses to governance proposals and a post asking what SPORTS meant to the community.

But when you start talking about possible profound changes in the community, this account always appears and still tries to somehow influence how people should vote.

I don't know why any stakeholders, beyond those chosen as having a voice, would vote to remove their voice in governace to give a very small group those authorities. However as I've stated if a governance proposal was approved then I would be willing to follow the community requests.

But has this governance model brought us anywhere? Is the community stronger and better than ever? Have things been done to improve?
Well, it seems that the answer to all these questions is no, because we are from the communities with the least interactions even when we are in a year in which we had a World Cup and I think that demonstrates a lot how things are going around here.

But I could also be the one who is wrong and not seeing things as they are.

transfer all private keys of the @patrickulrich community accounts to the core team
transfer the @patrickulrich domain to the core team

Giving as a justification the fact that it is a new team taking care of these matters and trying to give as a negative point the fact that they do not have experience managing a community does not seem to me to be a very valid argument.
It's good that in successful companies new people occupy great positions to help these companies grow, but here it's preferable to stay as we are instead of going after people willing to implement things and try to change things.

This is too broad to respond to but I'd encourage stakeholders to remember that changing tokenomics affects two parties, one positively and another negatively, be sure to have any potential tribe governance be clear on their requests.

When I talk about analyzing the current tokenomics, it would be able to identify how we could solve the problem of having too large a supply, which means that there is always a selling pressure, which will never let the token grow and become an attractive token.
I would never change any more rules regarding tokenomics but for that it would be better to try to start a sports community from scratch where I wouldn't have this problem, because I would do things very differently.

I can save you the time of analyzing anything, this isn't even possible on Hive Engine for tribes on the Hive Engine SMT.

I love the sarcastic tone in the answer but if I remember correctly this was proposed in the past by the current owner. So how was he going to implement this if he now says it's not possible?

We encourage anyone who has ideas for our community logos to post them to chain and seek proposals to be adopted by the community. Artists can also request funding for such designs through our token fund that you've posted this to. Are you saying that your opinion is better than that of the entire community voting on such a matter?

My opinion is not better than anyone else's opinion but instead of waiting for proposals to fall from heaven to deal with some matters I would go after people who I know could help us and maybe even just for the pleasure of helping without having to spend a penny but of course I wouldn't force that person to have to write a script to create a proposal.

We've been open to having this created for a long time. If you have PRs that can enable this functionality we encourage you to push them upstream to the Hive Engine repository so they can deploy them to the community. We would happily vote on any token fund requests to reimburse users for submitting such PRs.

Since you say you already had several ideas, did you ever go looking for people with the necessary knowledge to implement these ideas?
Or do you think they will appear in a sports community from beyond?
If we want to make changes and there is no knowledge in the community, we need to think outside the box and set our feet on the path, as they say in Portugal.

I am happy to see users seeking changes but wish these were presented to advance the tribe versus put the tribe under some kind of control of a small group of users. I encourage anyone who thinks they can improve the tribe to seek doing so with proposals that allow anyone to vote and make their stake in the community heard.

You continue to bang on the DAO issue and I understand that you defend it to the end as otherwise your greatest achievement in the past two years would fall flat.

If there is a great opportunity to implement something that the community even agreed with the idea, but this has an associated cost and has to be answered in a very tight time frame, how do we not let this opportunity slip away? Making proposals at the DAO and waiting for people to vote? What if they are absent and when they vote we no longer have the same proposal in hand?

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You're welcome for the clarification. I'm not the only one that knows how to operate the ARCHON DAO but if you think you could build a more user friendly version then maybe you should make a proposal to move to the new one you create. If it's a better product then maybe SPORTS could use it instead.

start talking about possible profound changes in the community, this account always appears and still tries to somehow influence how people should vote

So when someone who has a whooping 25K stake in the community, despite their content being voted on by this curation account multiple times, tries to take over everything about our community we should stand back and not try to point out the lunacy of their proposal?

has this governance model brought us anywhere?

3 years of rewarding sports content

community stronger and better than ever

Yes

Have things been done to improve?

Yes

how was he going to implement this if he now says it's not possible?

Because it was possible at the time for the tribe on the old SCOT system. The Hive Engine SMT is what changed that doesn't allow for this operation.

did you ever go looking for people with the necessary knowledge to implement these ideas?

Yes we've had multiple devs work within this ecosystem that I've brought to the table by reaching out to them.

Or do you think they will appear in a sports community from beyond?

I'm the sarcastic one? Maybe you should consider learning more about a tribe before walking in as it's savior when you don't even know much about the underlying platform it seems.

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You're welcome for the clarification. I'm not the only one that knows how to operate the ARCHON DAO but if you think you could build a more user friendly version then maybe you should make a proposal to move to the new one you create. If it's a better product then maybe SPORTS could use it instead.

Why I shall to improve something that I don't like, and I don't use it?
I have better things to use my time.

So when someone who has a whooping 25K stake in the community, despite their content being voted on by this curation account multiple times, tries to take over everything about our community we should stand back and not try to point out the lunacy of their proposal?

Maybe you are not seeing, but I have 265k not 25k, but even if was 25k that is not the relevant part.
If you don't want to vote on my content ok I am not problem with that it is not your vote that will change my family life, and maybe I am the few users that write about sports without only looking about rewards.

I don't want to take over everything, I just want something to change to improve things, but I see this is not the right community to do it.
Other thing, other day when we talked you could tell me that you didn't want this kind of change, instead of saying that if the community accepts it, the transition will go smoothly.

3 years of rewarding sports content

That is the minimal use case for all the communities, and you know that is not true since only this year we started to a daily curation.

I'm the sarcastic one? Maybe you should consider learning more about a tribe before walking in as it's savior when you don't even know much about the underlying platform it seems.

Will you be the one to teach me? It's just that if you go, I don't think you'll learn much since this community, at least the last two years, hasn't moved forward much, and it must have one of the worst initial tokenomics that I know of in the crypto world and I've already been here some time.

It seems to me that it is better to end the conversation here as the level of conversation is already starting to drop, and I am very proud of who I am, and I will not let other people say that I do not know anything and I have to learn as well as come with sarcastic tones to call me a savior when I'm not a savior at all, but I'm the only donkey who still wastes time thinking about how some things could be changed.

I should do like 99% of this community that doesn't care about anything and just wants to be here farming tokens...

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Why I shall to improve something that I don't like, and I don't use it? I have better things to use my time.

Sure sounds like someone I want to take over the tribe...

I have 265k

I stand corrected. I didn't see the delegation.

tell me that you didn't want this kind of change, instead of saying that if the community accepts it, the transition will go smoothly

Did you ask me? I think I was clear with my answers and stand by them.

only this year we started to a daily curation

I might not have published that I was curating but it's been happening for three years now.

It seems to me that it is better to end the conversation here as the level of conversation is already starting to drop

Unfortunate but not surprised.

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I don't know why you are not surprised since I never disrespected you, but honestly I don't to know more since for you, I only want to take over the tribe.

I have already disabled the funds proposal and tomorrow I will do a new post saying I am out from trying to help since now I am the bad guy

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I will do a new post saying I am out from trying to help since now I am the bad guy

Disappointed you've taken that from today. Would have loved to see your skills utilized better.

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It's the true... currently I am seeing as the bad guy in this history.

Since I use Hive for fun I don't to be involved in this kind of situation so the best move it is taking a few steps back and leave the scene.

I will continue to produce my content as usual, but I will no longer make a single post with possible ideas on how to change things or with new ideas.

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Since I use Hive for fun I don't to be involved in this kind of situation so the best move it is taking a few steps back and leave the scene.

I can understand that feeling and don't blame you for the decision to get away from that. I don't think you've done anything wrong to be a bad guy though. I just don't agree with the concept of centralizing the tribe behind a team. I hope that after this settles we can get you back in the mix. I still think you have so much to offer all kinds of tribes and want you to be a part of this tribe in all sorts of ways.

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Hi there, I will answer as I was mentioned in your comment, I have not taken active part in the DAO of SPORTS, lack of time has been the main issue as I use all my time to run the ALIVE tribe.

Being a tribe owner myself I can already tell that some of the points here are not compatible with how the Hive-engine code and smart contracts work.

analyze whether the cut rule on SPORTS rewards is cut in half if the post is created outside our front end

The only way to do this at all is to cut rewards in half, and then add rewards outside of proof of brain SMT by running a rewards system on the side that issues additional tokens and pays them out, there is no such bot coded for running this, so if done it needs to be created from scratch (unless LEO has one).

transfer all private keys of the @patrickulrich community accounts to the core team

Multisig? If not, then absolutely not.

transfer the @patrickulrich domain to the core team

This is outside of the blockchain.

analyze the current status of the SPORTS tokenomics

Good tokenomics comes from stakeholders getting value by staking their tokens, ALIVE is paying out daily staking rewards for example.

burn all liquidity SPORTS that exist in community accounts

Create a team of curators instead, have them do a daily post, and add a daily contest to it.

rebrand community logo and SPS token logo

Suggestion?

re-analyze/deploy advertising on our front end (the return generated by this publicity will be used to make SPORTS buy backs & burns and to increase the Hive HP of the community accounts)

Use those funds to create the backbone for a sustainable income for the tribe to pay out daily staking rewards to SPORTS stakeholders instead, it adds value to staking the token, and create a weekly staking contest too, and perhaps a weekly burning contest as well, ALIVE has both of those contests.

analyze whether it makes sense for our community to invest in tokens that will generate dividends (another form of passive income that will allow more buy backs & burns)

It does, but make sure you know how to earn those tokens rather than buying them, you can't keep buying them long term, and use the income for paying out daily staking rewards.

That is my take on this.

!ALIVE

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Thank you for your insights @flaxz! We'd love to find ways to integrate more with the ALIVE tribe in the future.

The only way to do this at all is to cut rewards in half, and then add rewards outside of proof of brain SMT by running a rewards system on the side that issues additional tokens and pays them out

You have an interesting concept for a way to integrate cut rewards. I don't see us integrating that model due to no decentralized distribution method but it does create a possible path to achieving the end goal. If we did go a path like that I'd prefer we cut the rewards from content creation and applied those to the token fund. That way the operator of the incentivized site rewards could request the original rewards from the token fund in a proposal that stakeholders could vote on. This way if they showed any signs of impropriety stakeholders could remove their token proposal from funding.

Multisig? If not, then absolutely not.

We completely agree on the importance of multisig. In our last successful token governance the tribe elected that I create a multisig with members of my selection taking part. I've yet to implement that but the plan is still in place unless the community votes an alternative like this team structure.

Good tokenomics comes from stakeholders getting value by staking their tokens

We completely agree. It's proposals like these that help build value for SPORTS. Outside of content rewards staked SPORTS also allow for governance voting rights. As this governance disagreement has started we can already see the value of SPORTS going up perceivably as stakeholders begin acquiring stake to increase their vote.

Create a team of curators instead, have them do a daily post, and add a daily contest to it.

This is kind of what we've been up to with @sportstalksocial. We vote daily on the top voted sports content and issue curation reports written by @cryptoandcoffee. Adding contests is something we need to look at.

Use those funds to create the backbone for a sustainable income for the tribe to pay out daily staking rewards to SPORTS stakeholders instead, it adds value to staking the token, and create a weekly staking contest too, and perhaps a weekly burning contest as well, ALIVE has both of those contests.

These are great ideas!

It does, but make sure you know how to earn those tokens rather than buying them

I think this is a great concept as well. We have partnered with ARCHON's tribe to handle a governance system that controls the @sports-gov account's assets. Building on those would be a great way to add continuous value.

At this point though we've not had good ideas on increasing those tokens stakes. I think the best play would be to liquidize those alternative assets to do more regular sports buy back / burns. If we had a better system proposed then maybe that would be a better play but as it has stood for over a year those funds just sit unused in @sports-gov.

Thank you for the great ideas on staking rewards and potential contests. Those are something we could definitely look at adding in. We'd love more suggestions on the concept of building token accounts though and think that could still give value to the ARCHON system beyond just governance if a plan was in place.

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At this point though we've not had good ideas on increasing those tokens stakes. I think the best play would be to liquidize those alternative assets to do more regular sports buy back / burns. If we had a better system proposed then maybe that would be a better play but as it has stood for over a year those funds just sit unused in @sports-gov.

Sell 10% or 20%, and then stake and accumulate the rest and let it grow with curation rewards, then use the cut that you sell in the best way to add value to stakeholders.

The tribe always needs recources itself, and it is important to keep building that, at the current price of ALIVE around 0.03 Hive the APR on daily staking rewards is just below 4%, if the price drops for any reason then the APR goes up and everyone and their mother will put up standing buy orders to get ALIVE for cheap (it has happened), something like that would create a floor for SPORTS, so that is an idea.

!ALIVE

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I'm not sure I fully understand. Are you saying we'd build stake in the community and at various periods sell that stake that we generate from curation to build a reserve group of assets that are more liquid like Hive? Then that Hive is used on lower prices to support the floor?

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There is 2 parts here, the first part is to sell a cut of the tokens you are earning as curation rewards, and stake the rest to increase your income in those tokens, then the second part is to use the Hive you get for selling that cut in a way that builds value for SPORTS stakeholders, and I gave an example of 1 way that we are building value and demand for ALIVE, you of course need to find the best way to build value for SPORTS stakeholders.

!ALIVE

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@flaxz thanks for you comments

Some of them are what I was thinking that it could/should be implemented and it would/will be discussed with the discussion group that had mentioned they would be implemented.

However, even before we had the DAO implemented, I never saw the owner of the community with the initiative to do something and always be in a position waiting for others to think of suggestions or improvements for him, I don't feel good about myself doing the work all for him.

When a person decides to create a community, he must think about the future of it, from how to keep people interested, how will it captivate more people, etc.

Another issue is that this DAO model that is currently implemented does not seem to be at all beneficial since only one person knows how to use it and no one else has tried to use it.

But from what I've understood these past two years, maybe I'm wrong, after all I was the only one to raise questions about community management, it seems that the current state of it is satisfactory for most holders.

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Building a tribe to be successful is hard work, maybe start your own if you are up for it?

!ALIVE

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I think this is more about waking up the community and trying to get everyone involved more than anything else. We need to move Sports forward and this is what the community should be doing. Discussions need to be had with ideas thrown around before anything is decided as this involves all of us. Voting on proposals now is way to early as nothing has been discussed and there are no new ideas.

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I think we all want the community to do well. The people mentioned like myself post regularly on sport so want to see Sports have a game plan which it doesn't seem to have. THe Discord channel is dead and take for example the Fantasy premier league discord is a Hive of activity amd great fun actually.
I think what @cryptosimplify is trying to achieve is good intentions and we are lucky he is interested in making the tribe better as well. Nobody is planning a coup but there needs to be a discussion about where we are heading. Some type of townhall where everyone who is interested takes part. You dont need to be a dev to have a plan or roadmap. Yep we seem to be decentralised in one way but so are the other tribes and they are still led by a group of stakeholders that are active in the community. Doing something , anything is better than doing nothing at all. @cryptosimplify proposal whether it gets through or not should be the kick starter for new ideas around the future of sportstalk

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That is my point to think a create a roadmap it is not necessary to be a dev.

We can define some tasks that needs software development but the execution comes later and when we reach hat point we analyse the Best approach to that.

However, to be able to do this kind of thing and start doing something I think DAO it is not good because we will not be able to agile as necessary since it is necessary to get votes and people can be days or weeks without come to here.

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What kind of community change is so urgent that it would require a more agile decision path?

Posted using SportsTalkSocial

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For example, finding a dev who says he has some free time today and could make some needed changes to the front end.

I've had contact with cases like these outside Hive so I wouldn't be surprised if this happens someday.

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Why does the community need to be consulted for front end changes? The front end is ran by Hive Engine so if you made changes to it you could send them upstream to HE and they could implement.

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But doesn't the frontend also fit for being a community asset?

Or is it only the things that are onchain that belong to the community?
So I get confused about decentralization and that the community should have voting power on everything.

One reason would be the payment for that work.

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But doesn't the frontend also fit for being a community asset?

Not really because it can't be held by the blockchain accounts. I am just willing to give it to someone else if the community thought they'd be a better custodian of it. There can be multiple frontends though. You could spin up simplysports.com and use SPORTS your own way. We used to run sportstalksocial.com for the outpost and sportstalk.social for the old style.

is it only the things that are onchain that belong to the community?

More or less. Unless there's a legal entity how would a blockchain own other assets?

reason would be the payment for that work

Payments should be handled by token fund requests. If a token fund request receives support beyond the funding limit then it will payout on day one. Additionally payment proposals can be made on a future date to build support.

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More or less. Unless there's a legal entity how would a blockchain own other assets?

I was expecting since we are a decentralized community I was expecting everything related with the community even what is off chain was part of community assets, but I am wrong.

Payments should be handled by token fund requests. If a token fund request receives support beyond the funding limit then it will payout on day one. Additionally payment proposals can be made on a future date to build support.

That was the point. If it is necessary to be agile, we are not able to do it.

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!PGM

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I give my full support to the proposal, this will be a huge step for the community and I am ready to see it flourish.

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Thanks for the support, but not everyone sees this opportunity of changing as a good one.

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Thanks for tagging me @cryptosimplify and for generating some ideas and discussion points. That kind of energy is very much needed within the Sportstalk community. Very happy to be involved in any discussions going forward about initiatives that can help us grow

!BEER

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Thank you for your words
I hope this be a kick off for starting things

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Thank you for your witness vote!
Have a !BEER on me!
To Opt-Out of my witness beer program just comment STOP below

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